Turning ESG Commitments Into Action and Opportunity

If you thought talking about ESG and sustainability couldn’t be entertaining, guess again! Our guest this week is the very funny Adam Kramer, vice president and corporate sustainability officer at KBR. Sitting down with host John Arnold, Adam talks about KBR’s commitment to ESG and how the business is following through, how KBR is using data to report its progress to the world, and why ethical ESG action is essential for businesses.

Special shoutout to surprise guest, Kirsten Mackenzie, KBR’s director of Corporate Sustainability!

Transcript

IN ORBIT: A KBR PODCAST

Season 3, Episode 7

Turning ESG Commitments Into Action and Opportunity

John Arnold

Hello, I'm John, and this is In Orbit. Greetings to everyone listening, whether you're tuning in for the first time or are a regular orbiter, we're grateful you're with us and staying in our orbit. We've got a fantastic episode lined up for you today. Well, they're all fantastic, but this one is too.

A couple of weeks ago we had Paul Stevenson on the podcast talk about KBR's Zero Harm culture, which is the foundation of all safety and ESG-related initiatives at KBR. Paul talked to us about Zero Harm from a safety perspective, and with us today to talk about the ESG side of the Zero Harm coin, specifically KBR's commitment to corporate sustainability, our progress, and where we're headed next is Adam Kramer, vice president and KBR's corporate sustainability officer. Welcome to the podcast, Adam.

Adam Kramer

Hey, John, you make me sound so important. Thank you for that.

John Arnold

You are extremely important.

Adam Kramer

So I'm glad to be on this podcast, John. Really, it's amazing that we're on a podcast because — I don't know if most people know this — but just looking at you, you look like Justin Timberlake. And I don't know if anybody's told you this, but I'm so glad this is the case, because if we were on an actual video, people would just be staring at you and not actually listening to me. So thank you for making this a podcast.

John Arnold

Yeah, no problem. I don't want people distracted by anything. I want them completely focused on you.

Adam Kramer

No, it's good. And I don't know if the listeners don't know this. Look up John Arnold on the internet, he's like an opera singer, it's fantastic. Not only does he look like Justin Timberlake, he actually sounds better than Justin Timberlake. No offense, John. I'm plugging you.

John Arnold

No, I appreciate that. I appreciate that immensely. I have to have advertising for my side hustles.

Adam Kramer

Hey, I'm happy to help you out, John. I'm happy to help you out.

John Arnold

Yeah, absolutely. Well, Adam, why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself, about your role at KBR, and how it has evolved?

Adam Kramer

Okay, so originally I was the company secretary, and which is, I guess what you call lawyer for the board of the company. Well, actually, my wife, when she would introduce me to her friends, she'd actually introduce me as a secretary. And that's actually a great thing because I don't know if you know this, but people would actually spend time chatting with me because, well, if she told them I was a lawyer, they'd be running away. So it was kind of nice. People actually respected me a bit more now, so.

John Arnold

Well, you could tell them, “I'm not that kind of lawyer.”

Adam Kramer

You're right, you're right. I try to be a nice one, so thank you, John.

John Arnold

Yeah, no problem.

Adam Kramer

Kind of you to say. But really, sort of onto my role, I started working for KBR, it was probably about 2006 when we IPO-ed, and, originally, I was the exec comp attorney for the company. And then over time, my responsibility sort of grew, M&A came aboard, then the securities, corporate governance. And so it was a lot of things that really weren't related at all to sustainability. But I took on sustainability as a volunteer because in my personal life I was big into the environment, social wellbeing, it's still important to me and it means a lot to me.

John Arnold

Okay, yeah.

Adam Kramer

And so that was really the challenge for me, was, if I'm going to do it my personal life, how can I sort of evolve this to the company? It was fun, it was a side project. And as you can imagine back, I guess we did our first sustainability report in 2011, and we probably had two or three readers — me and my fellow assistant at the time. Those are the two readers that really read the report. And hopefully over time, you can imagine it wasn't the cool kid in town back then. But I don't know, if you ... look, John, you're really young, I don't know if you remember this, but “Revenge of the Nerds” for a guy like me, that was —

John Arnold

Oh yeah.

Adam Kramer

— a seminal movie. And it felt like that sustainability, we were sort of these “Revenge of the Nerds,” and we came back, and now we're the cool kids in town. You don't have to shake your head, John. I know I'm not cool, but.

John Arnold

No, you're very cool. “Revenge of the Nerds” is a quality film.

Adam Kramer

Thank you. So I'm going to live this dream now that I'm still cool, and put on a serious note. Sustainability — look, it's gained momentum. The business world, you hear about it all the time. You look at the news, you really can't look at it without seeing about sustainability. And it really has become important to companies, people, investors.

John Arnold

So listeners of the podcast might have heard and are familiar with terms like ESG, which is environmental, social and governance principles, and the word sustainability. But for folks who might not be as familiar, could you define sustainability and tell us what it means to KBR?

Adam Kramer

Absolutely. Absolutely, John. So sustainability is sometimes, I guess it's confused with environmental sustainability. And people really think it's limited to throwing away their bottles and cans into recycling bins, but it's actually more than that. It's really a broad term, and it really talks about positive impact on the business, both socially and environmentally. And it's really what's driving the movement to be nice to the world and nice to people. So it's really kindness, in the end.

And that's really how we enhance our business throughout this positive impact. ESG, it's probably a term some of our listeners have actually heard. And the two concepts when you talk about sustainability, ESG, they're interrelated.

John Arnold

Right.

Adam Kramer

ESG is how you measure that impact of sustainability. So represents the environmental impact, S, the social impact, and G is the good governance.

John Arnold

So we've got those three prongs of sustainability, broadly sustainability. So how is KBR approaching sustainability?

Adam Kramer

Yeah, yeah, good question. John. Our board and CEO, they see sustainability as a strategic priority. And so they appointed Martin Simmonite, and he leads as our sustainability/energy transition officer, and then they added me as the corporate sustainability officer. So Martin and I work together, and I don't know if you know Martin well, but he's an amazing guy. He's just phenomenal. And interesting enough, he reached out to me and we had dinner when he was in town. He's in London, and he actually cooked wagyu beef for me. So I mean, just an amazing fella, I kind of like to say he is like my brother from another mother.

John Arnold

I have spoken with Martin before. We had the pleasure of having him on the podcast last year to talk about when he was then heading up KBR'S technology-led industrial solutions business. And that episode did really, really well. So hopefully you'll follow right in his footsteps, maybe get more downloads than Martin. But would you tell us about what the responsibility as the sustainability officer entails, and how you plan to improve and integrate sustainability at KBR?

Adam Kramer

Sure, John. So as I guess you'll often hear it said, and Stuart [Bradie], our [KBR president and] CEO is really — he's really great at reiterating this: KBR, we have amazing people, we're doing amazing things that matter. So these are things that we do, and it's the way we promote, for example, we promote safety and positive social impact. And behind all this, we have a team of teams supporting this great work. And whether it's our amazing corporate and business functions, our employer resources groups, for example, our new communities of interests.

John Arnold

Yep.

Adam Kramer

Look, we're getting her done, we're getting that sustainability done. And it's my team's job to show the world just how much work we're doing and how well we're doing it. So to do this, and I'm going to go a little bit boring on you here, John, but we really collect data from every part of the business to prove that we do what we say we do. So we do all this to measure our social impact, our environmental impact, and how we're governing ourselves. And for all the nerds out there, including myself, these aspects are referred to as non-financial disclosures.

John Arnold

Okay.

Adam Kramer

So for example, take the amazing health and safety record. And Nick [Anagnostou, VP of HSSE at KBR], the head of our safety, I mean, I emulate Nick, he's just phenomenal. And we need to report this to our shareholders as the number one story we tell. Whether you're an investor, an employer, client, look, they want to work with a company that puts health and safety first.

John Arnold

Right.

Adam Kramer

And rightfully so, this makes up a large part of our social impact. Another example, our chief people officer, Jenny Miles, she and her team are working to make amazing strides on the People strategy. So we're helping translate that work into reportable data to communicate to the street and our clients. And then because investors, clients, employees, they want to know how well we look after our employees, they'll ask whether we provide inclusive or happy and healthy workplaces. And so they wanted to show we value our people providing competitive benefits and pay and meaningful work with flexibility and balance. Do we invest in their careers through meaningful development, training, and mentoring? For example. Do we provide these things equally across gender, ethnicity, and age groups? And so there's a lot of things we're doing.

So for example, we do a wellness survey. And that survey, it's an amazing thing. We've committed annually to doing it. But one of the big things we're pushing for is mental health. And I'm a big fan. I was actually a psychology major, and I'm all about really improving mental health. And so one of the ways ... my dream of how mental health would improve is it's a stigma right now. Mental health is a stigma. And unfortunately, people can't come out and say, "Oh, I have an anxiety, I have depression, I have these things." They don't feel comfortable doing that. And I have sort of this dream that one day mental health will be destigmatized.

And so one of the ways we do that is, I believe, as leaders of a company, we have to be the ones to come out and say, "Hey, it's okay if you go see a therapist." And how do you do that? You really have to be authentic and sort of admit the things you do. So for me, for example, I go to therapy. Right now, I go probably once a month. My wife would say I need to go every day. But I've always gone to a therapist. And I feel that's important and it helps with mental well-being.

But, to me, that's just the same as going to my heart doctor to get a heart checkup. But how can we do that? How can we do that? And I think that starts with leaders really saying, "Hey, it's okay to go to a therapist. It's okay to talk about that. It's okay to understand that every single person has a different perspective in life and a different upbringing." And that's how we're able to really help mental health in our community, in our company. And so that's just one aspect, and I think it's probably one of the most important aspects to people at our company is that social aspects. It's, “How do we make sure people feel comfortable being authentic, being who they are at our company?” And that really goes down to leading by example, walking the talk. And so these are just some of the social assets that we highlight in detail through our report, some of the things we're doing.

John Arnold

Well, I think that, yeah, it's extraordinarily valuable information to hear about the elements that are not environmental related. Because I think you're absolutely right in what you said earlier, that a lot of people think of sustainability as just being like, "Oh, we're going to turn bottles into sweaters," and things like that, and that's a big part of it. But it's also about safety. It's about people. It's about making sure that people feel valued, employees feel valued in the benefits and the pay that they've got. And the mental health thing — number one, I appreciate your candor in opening up about that. That's awesome and appreciate that. But also, you're our second psychology major in as many episodes. KBR has got a lot of people people on their payroll. That's awesome.

Adam Kramer

We try, we try. And so I think by doing that, by talking about things, we're able to get it out there in the open. And that's really ... we talk about ... I don't know, it all comes together. We're bringing this all together. We're really trying to paint this picture. So it's all these aspects. It's mental health, it's governance.

John Arnold

Yeah, absolutely.

Adam Kramer

It is recycling. That's one of the things we've got to do. But all these things we're doing, each of these is important, and all that paints a picture. And I kind of like to look at ... I don't know, I love art. So I think about Georges Seurat or Monet and they make up their paintings with these little dots or little brush strokes. And over time, those little brush strokes or those little dots, they come to make this gorgeous painting when you step back and see it all. And that's really what we're doing here. We're taking all these little pieces of KBR, these little nuggets of wonderfulness, putting them together, and painting that picture.

John Arnold

KBR as pointillism. I like it. I love it. All right, so we've got these broad aspirations. Big aspirations, not broad, but big aspirations. How do you prove to our different stakeholder groups, folks like our investors, our customers, and our employees, that we're doing these things well, or how we're doing these things well?

Adam Kramer

So we do a lot of work on putting this all together in what's called our Sustainability [and Corporate Responsibility] Report. So it's getting it out there. Look, there's hundreds of ESG rating agencies out there that rate us, that a number of our investors look to. And the important ones, cleverly, they tug at our heartstrings by giving out letter grades. Never did I imagine in my wildest dreams that I would still be dealing with letter grades when I'm 50 years old. So my team is responsible for ensuring those rating agencies know our full story. So we're really just taking the data, all the great things that people, like yourself, John, and around the company, they do, and we're putting that into a report. And so we hopefully help improve our company. And it's not just getting the grades up. That, to me, is a result of all the great work we did.

But unfortunately, those grades are very personal to me. So I don't know if you have kids, John, but I have a 16-year-old and he's ... he'll hate me for saying this, but he's just ... He's a real snarky little 16-year-old. But he'll come home, for example, I can remember last week he came home with a bad grade, and I was like, "Come on, what's going on here?" And he said, "Well, it's a tough teacher and there's a lot of smart kids in the class." And I said, "Well, you need to get it up." He says, "Well, how can you get mad at me because you got a bad grade from your ESG rating?" And I said, "Well, that's a good point. Thank you." And so my son is going to be a great lawyer one day. Anyways ...

John Arnold

Hopefully the good kind.

Adam Kramer

... for me, it's really walking the talk. So it's a great lesson my son has indicated to me. It's, look, if I'm going to ask him to do something, I have to do it myself. And so that's what we're working to do.

John Arnold

Let's talk a little bit about buy-in. We hear a lot about the need to quote-unquote, "Embed sustainability in a business." And in a business as big and complex as KBR, that sounds like a big task. So how do you get everyone on board to effectively accomplish that task?

Adam Kramer

In simple term, it means that we can only improve sustainability if it becomes part of our everyday business processes. So just like health and safety. Everyone in the business, from subcontractors on through senior managers at the corporate level, we need to understand how we're able to contribute to the big picture. So communication and education to everyone is key. It's a big part of why we do what we do. And I think that communication is very important. And some people come to me, and they say, "Look, I'm only one person. Does it really matter what I do?" And it goes back to this ... It's an African proverb, and the Dalai Lama actually uses himself. He says, "If you think you're too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito."

And I don't know if y'all know, I live in Houston, so we have ... I think mosquitoes out populate the human population in Houston by one billion to one. And I sleep with my earplugs. I have these ... they're the strongest earplugs. My wife snores. Apologies, honey, for telling the world that. But those earplugs are so strong I can't hear her and she snores as loud as a train. And I've been with her 28 years, so I love her. Wouldn't take without it. But a little tiny mosquito ... So my wife's snoring doesn't wake me up, but a little tiny mosquito, I can be dead asleep, and I can hear that little [mimicking insect noise]

John Arnold

Oh, that's a good mimic.

Adam Kramer

Thank you, thank you.

John Arnold

That was awesome.

Adam Kramer

That's part of the reason I'm going to therapy, because I'm haunted by mosquitoes.

John Arnold

I get it.

Adam Kramer

But that mosquito sound, right when I hear it, I mean, just the millisecond I hear it, and I'm up. Lights are on, and I'm on the bed. I'm looking for the mosquito, focusing on where I can see it, where's it going? So trust me, one person can make a difference. Absolutely. And if we understand that, we can do amazing things as a company.

John Arnold

So, you mentioned earlier, a touchstone of the podcast that we talk about a lot is that KBR has amazing people doing amazing things that matter. How is that, how is the work they're doing relevant to the sustainability story that you're trying to tell?

Adam Kramer

Good question, John. You really do have some zingers.

John Arnold

I try. Try to keep you on your toes.

Adam Kramer

Well, I could have come up with a better one myself, John. We're very lucky to have such a forward-thinking board and management team that see around corners. And that's kind of like, if you look at Stewart and the board, they really do. They're like superhuman. I never really foresee what they do, and that's why I'm extremely proud to be under their leadership. They knew, based on our existing technologies and expertise in the fields that we operate, how well we were positioned to provide our clients with solutions they need for their own sustainability journeys.

And this is what we mean by doing things that matter. For example, many of our government clients we serve are having to decarbonize, and align with the Paris Agreement, and their net-zero commitments. We have a suite of sustainable technologies and expertise to assist them with this. Not to mention, all the national oil companies and existing hydrocarbon clients who will also be looking for solutions. So, they're all getting the same investor pressure that we are. And it's part of the work, for example, that Martin Simmonite will be doing, is really identifying our capabilities and solutions across the organization and help map them across our client profiles.

John Arnold

That's awesome. I feel like, especially after COVID, that there was a big public push by business and government to get serious about sustainability. And we've also heard that, and we've talked about it here, that investors are more interested in sustainability and putting their money in sustainability-focused companies. Is there hope that that's not all just hype and that the tide has sort of turned?

Adam Kramer

Oh, that's a tough question. I don't know. This is kind of unorthodox jump, but I don't, like, I don't know. Remember “Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?”

John Arnold

Oh, yeah.

Adam Kramer

Remember that show? So, you could ask for a lifeline. You be bothered if I asked for a lifeline? I got a great lifeline.

John Arnold

I'm shocked by this. No, not at all. Who are we going to call?

Adam Kramer

I have a friend, Kirsty. She's phenomenal. She knows more about sustainability than anyone I know. So, Kirsty, are you available for a chat?

Kirsten Mackenzie

Hey. Hey, Adam. Hi.

Adam Kramer

Hey, hey. How are you, Kirsty?

Kirsten Mackenzie

Can I help you?

Adam Kramer

I don't know if you know this, John, Kirsty does an amazing Australian accent.

John Arnold

Oh, really? Okay.

Adam Kramer

I don't know if you ... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kirsty, can you do that? If you could answer this. The question is, John, he wants to know — we're doing a podcast right now. What's your thoughts on if this is all hype, all the sustainability talk that we have? Is it hype or is there actual real truth behind it? So, in your best Australian accent, I'm sorry to put you on the spot, Kirsty, I hope this is okay, could you do this for me? Could you give me some stats, give our readers, our listeners some stats?

Kirsten Mackenzie

No worries, mate. I sure can. Yeah, sure, Adam. Absolutely. That's a good question. Is it all hype? Well, maybe I'll just throw out some stats that I just have off the top of my head and see what you think. In a recent survey piece by PWC, 76% of consumers say they'll stop buying from companies that treat the environment, employees, or the community in which they operate poorly. That's a pretty high stat, I'd say.

Adam Kramer

Wow.

Kirsten Mackenzie

Yeah, there's some more. Maybe we could look at the United Nations sustainable development goals, the SDGs, as people often call them. If we were to put them at the center of the world's economic strategy, it's estimated that we could unlock 12 trillion U.S. dollars a year in opportunities and generate 380 million jobs.

Adam Kramer

Wow.

Kirsten Mackenzie

It sounds like hype, but these are some pretty impressive figures, I'd say. Oh, let's go to McKinsey, because McKinsey's always good. Their research shows recently that ESG or sustainability strategies can affect a business's operating profits by as much as 60%. So, that's pretty impressive, I'd say. How's that?

Adam Kramer

Amazing.

John Arnold

Impressive.

Adam Kramer

That's fantastic. Wow. Thanks, Kirsty.

Kirsten Mackenzie

It's okay.

Adam Kramer

So, John, Kirsty is, she's a key member of our sustainability team. And another thing that's really amazing about her, she was born and grew up in Australia. Wait a minute. Maybe that's why she does that great Aussie accent.

John Arnold

That — yeah, the pieces of the puzzle are coming together. Kirsty, before we let you go, Kirsten, why don't you tell us about what you do at KBR? I know you're a part of the sustainability team. What's your role?

Kirsten Mackenzie

Oh, great. Sure. I've been working with Adam for quite some years now. When we started out, I helped Adam primarily with the Sustainability Report. But as he mentioned, it's not just about the report, it's how we integrate sustainability into the business. This year, now with Adam's new role, we'll be looking at how we can really help the business get started on a lot of those initiatives to get sustainability really embedded into the business and improve those scores at the end of the day.

John Arnold

That's fantastic. Well, thank you so much. That data that you've given us, it gives someone like me hope, because, seriously, I get fired up about the topic of sustainability and ESG. I take it really seriously, Adam, like yourself. So, I'm wondering, I'll turn it back over to Adam. Thank you, Kirsten, again for being with us.

Kirsten Mackenzie

You're welcome.

John Arnold

Adam, I'm wondering what made you so passionate about sustainability? You mentioned earlier on that you were doing the corporate secretary, and you'd been a lawyer, or still are a lawyer, pardon me. But that you also had this passion for sustainability. Can you tell us about that?

Adam Kramer

Well, yeah, I guess it started a number of years ago, and I was sort of looking for my purpose in life, having my, I guess you call it your quarter-life crisis.

John Arnold

Sure, yeah.

Adam Kramer

Now's the term. So, I asked myself, “What gets me out of bed, what adds joy to my life? How do I want to be remembered?” And I read lots of books. I watch, to the annoyance of my wife in the evening, I watch TED Talks and you can always hear her saying, "Oh gosh, not another TED Talk." So, I'm always on this search of what really adds happiness? What adds value to your life? And so, I've read studies on money. Does increasing the size of your bank account, is that happiness? And study after study has shown really, after you get to be about, it's about $75,000 — you make $75,000, anything more, and you're really not adding happiness to your life. So, okay. It's not money.

Is it getting higher titles in a company? It's actually not that either. So, study after study has shown that, really, what drives people is purpose. So, having a purpose in life. And a lot of that purpose, and there was a long study at a Harvard, it showed that the number one factor for happiness was good connections, good conversations, connecting with family, friends, people, even strangers, just having connection. We're all human. We're all living in this unusual world that we live in, that learning about why we're here. And through that, I thought about toward the end of my life, what do I want to be known for? What do I want people saying? "Oh, Adam was great. He amassed this huge bank account. Adam is fantastic. He was the president of the world." I don't know. So, when I thought about it, it's not what resonated with me. What resonated with me was kindness, not just being kind to people, but also the environment. So, it's giving of yourself. It's being altruistic in the best way you can. And so I thought the amount of people that I can positively impact. So walking around, meeting people, being a person that makes people feel better. So every interaction that I have, if I can make someone feel better.

Now, my wife and kids would argue that a lot of times I don't do that with them. And I'm not perfect. I try, but I'm far, far from perfect.

John Arnold

Yeah, everyone is.

Adam Kramer

Yeah, no, my therapist will tell you a hundred times over I'm far from perfect. So the thing that resonated with me is being kind. And I recognize that when I'm with someone and I'm talking with them, I do something great for someone or I have a great conversation and I talk about them, I'm interested in them, and I hear about them. And I don't know if you know this, but people are just fascinating.

People have whole lives. And it just amazes me to hear the lives of people, and Kirsten knows well, I'll be sitting on a train back from, I remember from Bristol. We met this woman who was an art restorer. And we got to know all about her. I asked about her purpose in life, and she actually posted on our Instagram, "I met this weirdo guy on the train, but he was phenomenal." And she called me the most inquisitive person she's ever met. And she actually made a post about something I asked her. And that, to me, was a positive impact. And she recognized that. But it's having those positive impacts with people, but also the environment.

So everything that I can do of kindness to give actually just provides so much happiness. So I guess I'm really not altruistic because I'm only doing it for my own happiness, but boy does it add value. And Stuart often says, you can walk into work every day and have a purpose and that makes it a great day to wake up. And that's the way I feel. Every single day I get up and I go to work, I don't feel like it's work. I feel like, wow, what a blessing that I get to actually do good things. And that's amazing. That's just a phenomenal gift.

And thank you to Stuart and the board for giving me that gift. And thank you for the KBR people, for working with me to allow that gift to flourish. So John?

John Arnold

Yeah.

Adam Kramer

My purpose in life is kindness. And I hate to put you on the spot, but I'd be interested, what's your purpose? You're like this, look, you're ... I mean, you look like Justin Timberlake, you're like the nicest guy. You sing like Pavarotti and you're always smiling. You must have just some amazing knowledge of what the world is like or something because you're just always happy. So give me some thoughts on your purpose in life, John.

John Arnold

Oh my gosh. Well, it's funny you mentioned the Dalai Lama. I think ultimately … like yourself, I'm a voracious reader and have been doing a lot more — I love fiction and things — but I've been reading a lot more non-fiction. And my girlfriend and I read a lot of memoirs by famous people and inspirational books about people's life. But I think ultimately, the only real purpose, and this is just for me, that any of us has, is to treat others and the world with compassion and empathy and to ease each other's suffering. And hopefully, in doing that, and what you were just saying, I think that when you do that, it's okay that some good comes back to you because hopefully in doing that, however we do that, we can find more of a modicum of peace and satisfaction in our lives.

But I also am a huge ham. As a musician and entertainer, I love to perform. But above the joy of performing, and this is something that you said a moment ago as well — it leads right into it — is that I want to connect with people. I want to make them laugh if it's time to laugh, but through whatever medium, whether it's music or acting or writing or this podcast, I want to present new ideas or perspectives that maybe they hadn't considered, or that can help them see the world a little differently or more clearly for them, or maybe hopefully see that we're all on the planet together. It's the only planet we have and we're all just trying to figure it out.

So I guess that's my purpose — is to just try to be, like you were saying, be kind to people, treat people with compassion and empathy.

Adam Kramer

That's wonderful, John. Knowing you, some people listen to this may not know you, but you're probably one of the most wonderful people. And you talk about people that in your life have, they have that “it” factor, that sort of charisma that everybody gravitates toward. And you're one of those people. There's very few people that you can think about that really emulate just a great person. And you're one of those guys. It blows my mind that you're doing podcasts, you can sing. I've actually stalked you on the Facebook and saw your mask, the makeup you can put on for some of your —

John Arnold

Oh God, yeah.

Adam Kramer

Oh my gosh, it was amazing. And I've been in conversations where people have — actually, we've had a gush fest over John of how amazing the things you do. So John, I just want to thank you for just being part of KBR and I'm just so lucky to have actually been able to work with you and know you. Yeah, you're fantastic. And it's just amazing.

Oh, and I want to do one last thank you for John. I asked him to do a Cameo for my wife to sing like Justin Timberlake for a Cameo. And he did it. And my wife actually believed it and her friends actually believed it, but I did expose it.

John Arnold

That's awesome!

Adam Kramer

But thank you for that. And John just right away did it. No problem, no questions asked. So thank you, John. You're a great person. Appreciate you.

John Arnold

Well, likewise. I feel honored that you and I get to work so closely throughout the year together, especially on something that's important to both of us. And you're a heck of a guy to boot.

Adam Kramer

Aw, thanks John.

John Arnold

Yeah, man, I appreciate it. Well, thank you so much for coming, and thanks to Kirsten for being with us also on the podcast today, and we appreciate what you're doing and can't wait to hear more about what KBR is doing to take care of the planet and its people.

Adam Kramer

All right. Thanks John. Take care.

John Arnold

You too.

TRANSITION

John Arnold

And there you have it. Not only do we talk about important things like sustainability and ESG, we can also wax philosophical.

We want to thank Adam Kramer and Kirsten Mackenzie for joining us on the podcast and for speaking with us about how KBR is turning its ESG commitments into meaningful action for society and the environment, and also into value for our stakeholders.

If you're interested in learning more about KBR's ESG progress, be on the lookout for our new Sustainability and Corporate Responsibility Report coming out in just a few weeks.

Adam, Kirsten, their teams and many others have been hard at work getting that ready for the world to see, and we're excited about it. There'll be numerous ways for our people at KBR to access the report. But for any listeners out there who are customers, prospective customers, or folks who might be considering joining our team of teams, the report will be available on kbr.com. As always, you can find it under “Who We Are” and then follow that to our Zero Harm page.

And I would be remiss if I didn't thank our producer, Emma, for the awesome work she always does. Thank you, Emma.

And thank you, dear listeners. We hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, or if you have an idea for a future episode, please let us hear about it at inorbit@kbr.com. That's it for me. Until next time, from all of us here, thank you for being with us and staying in our orbit. Take care.