Humankind is going back to the moon! Over the next few years, NASA’s Artemis program will open up a new frontier of space exploration for future generations, and KBR’s people are helping pave the way. With us to talk about KBR’s involvement with Artemis and his role as a ground controller at NASA Johnson Space Center is Patrick Ream, a member of KBR’s Science and Space team. Patrick tells host John Arnold about his lifelong fascination with space, how KBR is letting him live his dream of helping humankind reach the stars, and what we can all expect as the Artemis missions progress. You won’t want to miss it!
Humankind is going back to the moon! Over the next few years, NASA’s Artemis program will open up a new frontier of space exploration for future generations, and KBR’s people are helping pave the way. With us to talk about KBR’s involvement with Artemis and his role as a ground controller at NASA Johnson Space Center is Patrick Ream, a member of KBR’s Science and Space team. Patrick tells host John Arnold about his lifelong fascination with space, how KBR is letting him live his dream of helping humankind reach the stars, and what we can all expect as the Artemis missions progress. You won’t want to miss it!
IN ORBIT A KBR PODCAST
Season 3, Episode 6
KBR and the Artemis Program – Unlocking a Universe of Possibility
INTRO
John Arnold
Hello, I'm John. And this is In Orbit.
Greetings earthlings, and welcome to the podcast. Are you a first-time listener? Get in here, we're glad you found us. Are you a regular orbiter? We're glad you're back with us and keeping us in your orbit.
We've got another great episode for you, one of a few that we'll be doing over the next few weeks highlighting KBR's involvement in NASA's historic Artemis program. Artemis has been much in the news of late and rightfully so. We're going back to the moon, you guys! That's a big deal in its own right because of all that that objective entails scientifically, economically, socially. But the moon is just the beginning. Over the next few years, the Artemis program will open the door literally to a universe of opportunity. And with us to talk a little about that is Patrick Ream. Patrick is a ground controller and member of KBR's Science and Space team that delivers mission-critical services and support out of NASA's Johnson Space Center. Welcome to the podcast, Patrick.
Patrick Ream
Howdy. Glad to be here. Glad to be able to talk with a lot of other space enthusiasts and space nerds out there and orbiters.
John Arnold
That's right. We're happy to have you. Yeah. We talk about the breadth and depth of what KBR does, but some of the stuff that gets me — aside from sustainability and that science part of the technology part — is when we get to talk about some of these [KBR] Government Solutions things, specifically space. So, before we get into what Artemis is, we'd love to get to know you a little bit. So, why don't you tell us about yourself? What led you to a console in mission control?
Patrick Ream
Yeah. Honestly, I still can't believe it myself. Even a year into it, it's still like a kid in a candy store because ... I grew up being a space fanatic, and that's mostly things in parts to my aunt. So, I'm a first-generation immigrant from Mexico. And so, my parents, they had to both work insane hours to make ends meet and be able to provide a future for my brother and I. So, in the meantime, my aunt graciously decided to pretty much take care of us, almost like a daycare. And so, she would be going to community college, and in those classes she would learn all about astronomy in her Intro to Astronomy classes, and she would bring that back to my brother and I teach us all the cool, interesting facts that she learned during those days. And so, those sorts of conversations really sparked and ignited a huge interest and passion in space for me.
And then, that was further cemented by the fact that I think around 6 or 7years old, I found out that the Johnson Space Center was only about three hours away from where I lived in San Antonio. And so, knowing that, I begged and pleaded to my parents to take me to Johnson Space Center as hard and as much as a little boy could. So, a lot of tears were had, a lot of bargains: "Hey, I'll brush my teeth," or whatever it is that I could tell them. And eventually, they were able to set aside one day of vacation or whatever, make the drive, day-tripped over the Johnson Space Center. And I still remember walking into that Saturn V exhibit for the first time and just taking a look at that gigantic behemoth of a vehicle that sent us to the Moon for the first time in the 1960s.
And obviously, I'm much bigger now, but to a 7-year-old, it was incomprehensible. And so, that passion continued. I wanted to learn as much as I could about space. And I went to high school, and then eventually college, where I decided to pursue a degree in aerospace engineering at Texas A&M University. And to be clear, I know — aerospace engineer, went to NASA, “Whoa, what a coincidence!” right? But it is not just aerospace engineers over there, and especially not in mission control. My mentor, another ground controller, she literally majored in marine biology. So, pretty much any technical background is really invaluable experience and helps with overall effort. And from there, got my degree, and I realized that — once I got the job — that I wanted nothing more than to be able not only to help us land boots on the moon again but also give back to the community and help inspire other kids in manners with which I've been inspired.
So, talking to classrooms, helping out with nonprofits here or there — a new one that just started up, Cosmic Leap Foundation — helping bring space and space education to those less fortunate who might not really have a career in STEM [science, technology, engineering and math] or not think of themselves as having a career in STEM before being introduced to space and all the amazing opportunity that come from it. So now, in this day and age, helping support the ISS as well as helping plan for Artemis 2, 3, and to the future and just really happy to be here, honestly.
John Arnold
So first of all, I think it's just phenomenal, your family's success story. That's super inspirational. You're now the second guest of this season, I think, that has had an aunt that helped guide them along into the career that they eventually landed in. So, that is really, really inspiring. And number two, you're a relatively young KBR team member. How long have you been with KBR and what's that experience been like so far?
Patrick Ream
I've been here for about a year and a couple of months now, straight out of college. For some reason, they think the biggest risk-takers are really young college people. I don't know why. But anyways, my experience has been absolutely phenomenal. This is definitely ... I plan on staying here for as long as I can even plan ahead in life. But if anything ever happens, I'll know that I'll have a really, really good barometer to compare every other place to, because my management team has been incredible, my teammates around me have been incredible. They really make you feel like not only are you part of something greater, but that you're not overlooked in that, even if the mission is greater, you're still a significant part of that. And that's pretty impressive and pretty awesome. Because you hear a lot about like, "You're just another cog in the machine." Well, definitely not at KBR and definitely not in my experience here. So, couldn't be happier.
John Arnold
That's fantastic. Yeah. I know KBR right now is in the second year of really focusing in on connections across the business — connections with the different facets of our business, connections to each other. And so it's great to hear that you've got that support and that it's helping guide you at this early stage in your career. If you don't mind, can you give us some more insight on your specific position? What does a ground controller do?
Patrick Ream
Yeah. So, a lot of people think that all the people that work in mission control are ground controllers. I mean, I kind of like it because it gives a lot more clout to the ground controller position. But in general, a ground controller is just a small part of the team. I wouldn't say “small,” but a part of the team that accomplishes the overall goal of the mission. So, there's a lot of different flight controller positions out there for a lot of different vehicles. So for example, the one that I'm primarily involved with, the ISS, because Artemis already landed. We have CRONUSes, we have SPARTANs, ROBOs, just all these other flight controller positions who are responsible for their own specific systems. And so, I say “system” for a specific reason, because vehicles, especially ones that have to function and survive in space, have a lot of very complicated internals that need to be monitored, that need to be troubleshooted, that need to be pretty much resolved and worked through constantly, 24/7.
And so, the ground controller’s part in that is essentially the domain of everything having to do with talking to the vehicle from the ground. So, all having to do from our just internal mission control building facility infrastructure, servers, land connections, hardwired stuff, all the way to constellations of satellites in orbit that we use called TDRS — tracking and data relay satellite — to help us talk to the vehicle. Because you can have any sort of mission, you can just shoot whatever vehicle you want into space. But what good is that going to do if you can't talk to it once it's in space? And so, that's the role of the ground controller. And so, we're essentially the people that allow us to get the mission pretty much completed from day one to the end of life. So, I need to also talk about that.
So, we also heavily involve ourselves in tests. So, anything to do with developing the vehicle on the ground and developing the software, ground controllers are also a huge part in supporting because a lot of the ... because we have our hands in pretty much every single vehicle system out there … because the ground is the ground. You could launch the ISS, you could launch the SLS, but at the end of the day, the Earth is still there. So yeah, a ground controller is like a jack-of-all-trade sort of position where essentially you can place us at the tip of the spear — helping launch the vehicles, helping fly them — to right at the beginning of R&D, being like, "Okay. I'm going to run this script and see if it works. Good luck." And then, we're like, "Yeah. Good luck. We're going to make sure everything works on our end." And everything in between.
This job has its difficulties, and it has its moments, but regardless, it's still incredibly fulfilling. And honestly, I couldn't recommend it enough. Like I said, I'm like a kid in a candy store. What could I say?
John Arnold
So I mean, yeah, for someone who is a complete novice as far as what, aside from what you see in the movie “Apollo 13,” where everyone's huddled around their console and talking to the astronauts and stuff, that's the romanticized version of what mission control does. But to hear you speak about it, it is super involved, covers a lot of ground — a wide spectrum of responsibility and a deep knowledge base to know about what all of these moving parts are doing and what's required.
Patrick Ream
Exactly. And the Apollo 13 comparison is also really apt, because, like you said, it's not always flying the vehicle 24/7, sitting on console talking to the astronauts. No, there's also a lot of background work that needs to be done to fly these vehicles — a lot of planning, a lot of coordination, a lot of interaction with either other systems or individuals out there to make the entire mission successful and make sure that the astronauts or their vehicle comes back to Earth safe and sound. And that's the stuff you don't see in the movies. But it's still incredibly important and honestly, an incredibly interesting part of the job, I would say.
John Arnold
That's awesome. So, you've been with KBR for a year and some change. What a time to start a job in mission control with NASA having begun the Artemis missions! I mean, as I said in the open, this is a huge deal for humanity. So, I wonder if you would tell us a little about the Artemis program and what the objectives are.
Patrick Ream
Yeah. This is an incredible time to be a part of NASA and be a part of KBR. This is ... I'd say the only other time where NASA has had this amount of R&D and this amount of effort towards conquering the stars would be in the 60s during the space race when we were fighting, quote unquote, "fighting the Soviets" to land on the Moon first, right? It's hustling, it's bustling, and overall, it's ... it's an incredible time to be here to the Artemis side of things.
So Artemis, for those who don't know, is the sister of Apollo, I believe, Roman gods. And so, essentially, the reason why she's the sister of Apollo, why she's named, or this mission is named Artemis, is because the intent is to get us back to the moon. So, the Apollo program got us to the moon in the 60s for ... what … seven, eight missions? And then, we never came back for 50 years.
Well, Artemis intends to get us back to the moon and stay there. No more, "Hey, we're going to be there for three years and then hope in another 50 years somebody gets the political will to do that." No, this time we're going to create permanently habitable areas on the moon. We're going to be supporting it 24/7 with a lot of different programs. So, it's not just Artemis. It's Gateway, it's HLS, and then programs in the future that are going to take us to Mars, and who knows what else? Because honestly, with space, there really is no limit to what we can achieve. And the reason why we're trying to create a permanent settlement on the moon is for many multiple reasons.
Number one is research and development, because there's a lot of stuff you can do in microgravity and lower gravity that you really can't do on earth. A lot of scientific breakthroughs that can only be done in space because, frankly, gravity makes you weigh it a lot. We're used to it. We can walk around, we can talk, we can jump or whatever. But in general, gravity makes a lot of things very difficult to do that. Frankly, space allows us to work around that. Second is there's a lot of commercial viability to that. Because the moon allows us to ... if we can mine the moon, we can acquire a lot of really valuable resources and accelerate that burgeoning space economy that we have right now, that's currently still being spearheaded by the likes of SpaceX, Blue Origin and the like. But eventually it's not going to be called the space economy, it'll just be called the economy.
And thirdly, and I think this is also equally as important, it's to inspire people, because, especially right now, some people say there's a feeling of hopelessness. I don't know, you see all this chaos in the world and on this planet. But space, in my experience, and I think in the spirits of many, has just a way of uniting everyone. During the space race, the whole nation was united under the common cause of landing on the moon, achieving the goal that John F. Kennedy set for us in 1962 or '63. I'm not a history major, I can't remember.
John Arnold
No worries.
Patrick Ream
And so, just imagining being able to see people just like us — first woman, first person of color, landing onto the moon again and staying there, you can't help but be inspired.
John Arnold
Absolutely.
Patrick Ream
And maybe imagine seeing yourself doing the exact same thing a few years down the line.
John Arnold
And the picture that you paint is extremely inspiring, and I can feel the passion emanating. You mentioned a couple of aspects of Artemis. And, listeners, if you'd like to learn more about these things that he's mentioned — Gateway, HLS, some of these other aspects of the program — please go check out nasa.gov/artemis. They've got a great little subsite, microsite of the NASA website that talks all about these different facets and aspects of the program, the different structures that'll eventually be built, vehicles, et cetera.
And another thing that you mentioned, I think last time we talked about this — and the website talks about it as well — is that, yes, lunar exploration is ... right now, that's what Artemis is for. Focus specifically on lunar exploration, but then on down the line, the lessons learned from our 50, close to 60 years of space experience so far, and then what's going to come from the Artemis missions are going to equip us for Mars or whatever else is coming down the road.
Patrick Ream
Exactly. Yeah. No, 100%. That's the end goal with the SLS. Just like the Saturn V. A lot of people don't know this, but the initial design criteria for the Saturn V was to be able to get us to Mars and back. And it was able to do the job to get us to the moon. And the reason why is because essentially the amount of ... Well, not to get too technical here, but there's specific criteria called Delta V that we use to determine how much energy or how much fuel it's going to take for us to get to a certain celestial body in the solar system. And Mars and moon have pretty similar amounts of Delta V.
John Arnold
Interesting.
Patrick Ream
So, any vehicle that can get to the moon can usually get to Mars, although the duration of the flight would be much, much longer. But as you said, the lessons learned from, not only the Artemis moon missions and permanently staying there, but also from ISS — what are the effects of log duration space on the human body and how can we mitigate those? And what are the sorts of things that we need to watch out for? Because once we land on Mars, and I say “once we land” because we will, some way, somehow we're going to get to Mars. We really won't be able to come back for about two years, right? That's just the way Earth and Mars line up, it's not really feasible to come back. So, once you get there, you're going to stay there for two years, which means we need to know our stuff and we need to be as prepared as possible for any sort of eventuality. And on top of that, not to ramble on a little bit …
John Arnold
No worries.
Patrick Ream
It takes about 20 minutes for any signal to reach Mars from Earth, which means that, practically, you're on your own. You can reach out to Earth for help on stuff, but if it's a really short time to effect or no response time needed, you have to figure all that stuff out on your own. Which means people like me, back in mission control, are going to really be depending on you, and I say “you” to all the listeners because one of you is probably going to be the first one landing on Mars. But you — and on Mars are going to have to know how to deal with it on your own, or at least with your teammates. So, there's a lot of that that goes into it. Space is complicated. And the common phrase is “Space is hard, but somebody's got to do it,” and might as well be us, right?
John Arnold
Absolutely. So, Artemis 1, done. Artemis 2, scheduled to launch late 2024, if all goes according to plan. This will be the first crewed mission of NASA's Orion spacecraft, which is expected to perform a lunar flyby test and return. It would also be the first crewed spacecraft to travel to the moon or beyond low Earth orbit since Apollo 17 in 1972.
Patrick Ream
Yeah.
John Arnold
So, how will your responsibilities — once the human element is introduced into the equation for ongoing Artemis missions, programs — how will your responsibilities change, if at all?
Patrick Ream
That's a really interesting question. That's a really good question, because they change significantly. The core of the responsibilities, not so much, but the impact of those responsibilities would change a lot because ... I was fortunate enough to be able to support a couple of sessions on console for Artemis 1. And so, Artemis 1 was just a test flight validating: verifying all the systems, making sure that all of the projections and all of the simulations were accurate and checking on the discrepancies. And so, essentially, the point of that flight was to see the limits of the vehicle. The risk wasn't really all that high, all things considered. So, the nature of it was a lot more relaxed, a lot more ... you could almost, not to say sit back, because obviously these are multi-billion-dollar vehicles, so it's still pretty ... and we take our jobs incredibly seriously.
But when compared to the ISS, where that's crewed at 24/7, and where there's ... I think, no ... crew five on dock? Yeah. So, I think ... what, eight people on board right now? The consequences are much greater, which means we need to practice much more, we need to train much more, we need to know our systems that much better and that much more, leveraging the lessons learned from Artemis 1. Because we don't have the opportunity to take the same risks we took in Artemis 1,b because there are crew members on that vehicle with families, with children, that depend on us to get them back to those families and to those kids safe and sound, and to be able to hug them and live those human experiences. And if we fail in our job, that they unfortunately might not be able to get that.
So, the role might not change that much, but the responsibility and the pressure and the duty to ourselves and to our teammates, the astronauts included, just shoots way up.
John Arnold
Sure. Well, I want to ask you a two-part question. You've already alluded to this and talked about it. But number one, I want to know what it feels like to be involved in this, working with a company that's helping make history in space exploration. And number two, to ask, what's the most rewarding part been of your experience as a ground controller so far?
Patrick Ream
It's surreal, first and foremost. I never thought I would ever get this opportunity. I remember when I was first hired, and I went back to that same Saturn V exhibit that I visited all those years ago when I was 7 years old. And I still have a photo of me standing in front of that Saturn V as a kid with my mom and my brother, and just standing that same spot again. And just being on the other side, it was surreal, right? Because this is every little boy's dream, every little girl's dream. So, it really means a lot. This is all I could have ever asked for. This is all I ever wanted, frankly. I never really ... I always shot for it. I always secretly hope, but I never really thought it was going to be a reality or possibility. And here I am.
John Arnold
Here you are!
Patrick Ream
Exactly. And here everyone else can be.
John Arnold
Absolutely.
Patrick Ream
You just have to believe in yourself and throw yourself into the deep end, because more often than not, you'll float.
John Arnold
It's a powerful message.
Patrick Ream
Yeah. Thank you. And it's hard to ... I know this is the cliché answer, but it's hard to just choose one part because just overall, the entire package is pretty rewarding, right? Because you're walking, driving through those gates at Johnson Space Center, that's pretty rewarding, having that privilege, right? Driving by rockets every morning, that's pretty rewarding. Being able to sit down in the same cafeterias that astronauts did from the 60s on up, that's pretty rewarding. And then, sitting down in the same ... well, not the exact same seats, because they would be really old at that point, but in the same general area of the seats that flight controller sat in when we first launched the Gemini capsules into orbit, first landed on the moon and knowing that now I'm continuing a legacy that was started by, frankly, some maniacs that I don't know how they had the freaking gall to strap onto those rockets, is incredibly rewarding.
When I sit console, and that's what ... Yeah. We call sitting in mission control, and sometimes you just put your head down and just focus on the job. But sometimes, you just get a moment of lucidity and you look around and you think, "Wow, I'm in mission control. The mission control." And that's a feeling I can never get enough of.
John Arnold:
Well, Patrick, it's been an honor. Before I let you go, is there anything else you'd like to share with our listeners?
Patrick Ream:
Yeah. So, I kind of touched on this a little bit, but a lot of people that I talked to think that working at NASA is this really... You have to be this incredibly smart... You need to be this incredibly special person. Not just anyone can work at NASA. But I'm here to tell you that, yes, you can work at NASA, and we want you to work at NASA. All of these missions we've talked about today, need people to support them, need people like you that are listening to this podcast right now. And I promise you, you do have what it takes because I know what it takes and I know what I'm capable of and/or what this job requires.
And so, all it takes is see your job opening. KBR does a lot of contracting through NASA. Just send out an application. Worst thing that happens is you get rejected. Or best thing that happens is you get a job, and you might be sitting console with me. Just throw caution to the wind and you'll be surprised at where life can take you.
John Arnold
Take a chance, be a part of history. You heard it here first from Patrick Ream. Join the KBR team of teams and put a man on the moon — or a woman and a person of color on the moon!
Patrick Ream
Exactly.
John Arnold
Or on Mars!
Patrick Ream
And on Mars, exactly. And conquer this entire freaking solar system.
John Arnold
Well, Patrick, it has been an honor and a privilege to speak with you. We appreciate your time, and we look forward to speaking with you again, I'm sure in the near future, as Artemis progresses.
Patrick Ream
Likewise, thank you so much for having me.
TRANSITION
John Arnold:
And there you have it. Many thanks to Patrick Ream for his time and expertise, and for sharing his obvious passion for what he does with us. And thanks, as always, to our producer, Emma, for her excellent work on the podcast.
If you're interested in learning more about Artemis, as I said in the interview, I encourage you to go check out nasa.gov/artemis. They've got a great page set up with lots of great information about the program. If you're interested in learning more about KBR's amazing work in the space industry, please check out kbr.com. If you like what you heard or have an idea for an episode, let us hear from you by emailing inorbit@kbr.com.
Also, let your friends know about us by sharing this episode or others that you've heard on social media. We hope you'll be back for more episodes in this series, highlighting KBR's work with the Artemis program and other important space missions.
And that's it from me. Until next time, from all of us here, thank you for being with us and staying in our orbit. Take care.