Safeguarding the Space Domain

In this episode of our miniseries highlighting the awesome capabilities of KBR’s Government Solutions business, host John Arnold is joined by Brian Young, vice president of the fast-growing Military Space Operations division within KBR’s National Technologies Group. Listen as Brian tells us about what military-space is, why it’s crucial to international security, and what KBR is doing to safeguard space from potential threats.

Transcript

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IN ORBIT: A KBR PODCAST

Season 2, Episode 7

Safeguarding the Space Domain

INTRODUCTION

Lubna Salim

Hello, I'm Lubna.

John Arnold

And I'm John. And this is In Orbit.

Lubna Salim

Hello and welcome to the podcast. We are glad you're with us. If you're new to the show, welcome. And if you're tuning in again, thank you and welcome back.

John Arnold

This is a podcast for everyone inside and outside our business that talks about what's happening around the world and in our various industries and that keeps us all connected and in each other's orbit.

Lubna Salim

Hello, John. How have you been? I have heard you've been a bit of a COVID warrior yourself.

John Arnold

Yes, I am. I went for a trip to New York to visit my sister and some friends. And it's funny because I'd done some traveling to various places and had been trying to be very careful and stay masked up wherever I was and had my vaccines and everything and still somehow managed to bring COVID home with me.

Lubna Salim

Ouch.

John Arnold

Yeah. We've been taking it easy and recuperating this past week.

Lubna Salim

I hope you feel better super soon.

John Arnold

Much better now.

Lubna Salim

Great.

John Arnold

Thank you. Not even COVID could keep me from talking about this exciting podcast episode though.

Lubna Salim

Yes. You've interviewed Brian Young, who's the vice President of the Military Space Operations division within the National Technologies Group, which was formally Centauri. So for the benefit of our listeners, it helps KBR's military-space and intelligence business and builds upon our existing cybersecurity and missile defense solutions. It also advances KBR strategic transformation of becoming a leading provider of high-end, mission-critical technical services and solutions. And in fact, before KBR acquired Centauri, it has already got a long history of serving some of U.S. government's most important, challenging and complex missions in advancing national security priorities. And KBR seeks to expand these customer relationships to diversify the company's offerings in mission support services for defense and intelligence customers. So John, how was interviewing this super amazing personality?

John Arnold

Well, it was exciting because, like you said, the National Technologies Group is sort of a relatively new thing for KBR. Like you said, the capability has been there, but we expanded it through this acquisition. So it was interesting for me to be able to speak with Brian, because it's really my first foray into encountering and hearing from a subject matter expert firsthand about what that group is doing. I'd seen it a lot on paper. And as you'll hear in the interview, intrepid listeners, you can read the word military-space, but until you really hear about what it is from an expert, it's sort of a nebulous idea. But yeah, I was really thrilled to speak with him. And hopefully our listeners get a lot out of this. And why don't we give it a listen to it now?

TRANSITION

John Arnold

Hello, everyone. And welcome back to our miniseries featuring some of the leading-edge capabilities delivered by KBR's government solutions business. Last time on the show, I had the pleasure of speaking with Travis Fitzgerald about how KBR is leading a new era of space exploration with the training of NASA flight controllers, instructors and astronauts, and now also private teams. Well, this week, we're going to stay in space, but more specifically, military-space. Hearing that term, you might immediately start thinking about Star Wars and lasers and Red Squadron taking on the Death Star. Maybe it's more of satellites and Reagan Era missile defense. With me today to tell us about what mil-space is, why it's crucial to international security, and what KBR is doing to safeguard the space domain is Brian Young. Brian is vice president of the fast growing Military Space Operations division within the National Technologies Group, formerly Centauri, which is part of KBR's Government Solutions U.S. business. He is speaking with us today from Kihei, Hawaii. Brian, welcome to the podcast. We're glad and proud to have you.

Brian Young

Thanks, John. I'm super excited to be here. I appreciate the chance to get to chat with everybody.

John Arnold

Thanks so much for being here. I looked at some pictures of Kihei right before we got on the call. And in the parlance of some poor southerners like me, we'd say bless your heart.

Brian Young

Yeah. No. People ask me all the time what it's like out there, and I say it's in the low eighties and partly cloudy. And that's it every single day of the year just about. So can't complain.

John Arnold

Terrible. You're suffering. Yeah. So instead of me reading our listeners a bio, I think it's safe to say we'd all rather hear from you about your background and what you and your team are doing. But before we do that, I'd love to get your take on what mil-space is and what that encompasses.

Brian Young

Yeah, sure, absolutely. So in parlance of how we're organized in KBR, my team is handling those programs, projects and contracts that are more associated with the Defense Department side of the space domain capabilities across the U.S. government, right? So as you said, we have a civil space NASA-type team run by Todd May. And then in the Defense and Intel side run by Pete Green, that's where we're focused on the military-space side. Now I will say that there are intelligence community assets in space. Those are not handled by my group. I'm strictly in the what most people understand as U.S. Air Force, and now U.S. Space Force space assets, and then ground assets that are used to communicate and pass data back and forth to the space assets. So just kind of in a nutshell, it'd be all of the former Air Force, now Space Force types of systems, that's where we're focused.

John Arnold

Understood. And how did you end up in the mil-space arena?

Brian Young

Sure. Well, I'm a retired Air Force lieutenant colonel and I was an engineer. And I was plodding along in my career doing odds and ends at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base as a brand-new second lieutenant in the Air Force. And I worked myself into the flight test community. So I went to test pilot school as a flight test engineer in 1999. And then I did four years of flight test. And one day I got a call from an ROTC buddy of mine who said, "Hey, there's this really cool job over here. It does rapid acquisition of space capabilities." And I'm thinking satellites at that point in time because I'm an air guy, not a space guy. And it was in Colorado Springs. We'd been living in the Mojave Desert at Edwards for five years and I thought, “Wow, that'd be a great change.”

So we rolled over there, moved, my family and I did. And the job was in a field called space control, which is basically protecting and defending our ability to operate freely in space, but it was very classified. So that was kind of another thing in my career. I'd worked classified programs before, had a lot of experience there. And so we thought, this friend of mine thought, it'd be a good transition over into the space team. And through that transition sort of just started off a long running time in the Air Force in space. And then by the time I retired in 2015, I'd been doing space now for about 10 years.

John Arnold

Wow.

Brian Young

And so I'd done everything from that ground-based space control type of work through on orbit satellite operations at Schriever Air Force Base. And then working at the headquarters of Air Force Space Command doing requirements development for all of our existing and new space capabilities we were bringing to bear. So that put me on a path to get to KBR, where now I've got 20-plus years of experience in the Air Force with the last 10 being in space. And then just kind of rolled that into my career on the industry side, leading to today. So a healthy combination of skills, experience, luck and timing I say would explain how I got here.

John Arnold

Right. Well, first, let me thank you for your service. And secondly, it's an impressive résumé — very varied and deep experience. And glad to hear more about that as this conversation progresses.

Brian Young

You bet.

John Arnold

You already mentioned a little bit about how your division specifically fits within KBR's National Technologies Group. I wonder if we could talk more about what your team does specifically and maybe about some of the significant projects that you all are working on right now.

Brian Young

Sure. Yeah. No, super really excited to describe our team. I have some of the best industry leaders in the military-space domain that you can work with. So I'm from the legacy Centauri acquisition. So as folks may know, KBR bought our company Centauri.

John Arnold

Right.

Brian Young

And prior to that part of our Integrity Applications Incorporated team, which also as part of this merger and acquisition process, right? So going back about seven years or so, I've been sort of working in the mil-space environment and then leading teams ultimately to lead our military-space division, and it's comprised of five groups. So I'll just take them one at a time.

So we have a team in Los Angeles that support ... I think it's Los Angeles Space Force Garrison. I hope folks will ... the targets are moving fast in the Space Force arena in terms of renaming things and organizations and whatnot. But the former LA Air Force base. We do high-end engineering services, primarily systems engineering and integration, and we do that in a variety of programs that are centered on our ability to communicate with our satellites from the ground. So for those not familiar, when I talk about satellites in this parlance, I'm talking about GPS, military satcom, missile warning, missile defense, and space domain awareness types of capability. We have a very, very strong team there that does the project called enterprise ground system, which was an Air Force and now Space Force initiative to better streamline and integrate the various different ground segments for each one of those type of satellites. So you would think GPS is different obviously than missile warning. So in each one of those mission areas, the Air Force and now Space Force would finally tune space operators to that mission. And then if they were to get transferred to another satellite system, like say MILSATCOM, they would have to learn an entirely different ground segment and do new training and new certifications on that ground segment. So our enterprise ground team has been front and center in terms of providing the systems engineering expertise to consolidate that into one common enterprise ground segment. So there's much more that we do in LA, but that's probably one of our key efforts that we are really specialized in.

And then out in Dayton I have a team that works really well with the rest of the National Technologies Group team that develops software and applications for space domain awareness. I have some of the world's leading software developers, who are also really strong orbit analysts if you could believe. That's a strange combo. But I have a team that develops this tool, application called the Space Domain Control and Characterization System, or SDCCS, and they have been working on the front end of the spear on space domain awareness. When you aggregate and collect all the data about what the satellites are doing up on orbit, whether they're our satellites or commercial satellites or our peer adversary satellites, all of the above, and this team has built this capability that can rapidly collect data that's available to the mil-space community and organize it and display it for orbit analysis to really quickly tell you what's happening. So that's going to be a key theme in this conversation because one of our specialty areas in mil-space for KBR is in that space domain awareness area. And our SDCCS team led by Shelly Brummer and Mike Selleck are again right in the front and center of that. They provide the SDCCS capabilities to our space war fighters at the National Space Defense Center. So really amazing capability to analyze and visualize what's happening in space.

And the third team I'll mention is my team in ... I have two more in Colorado Springs. The first one is our Space Command and Control and Mission Engineering team. And those folks do a combo of support directly to the warfighting centers at Shriever Space Force Garrison at the National Space Defense Center. So I have quite a few highly recognized national experts in space operations that directly support our Space Force customer at the key defense centers in the military. So we, as a company, have been part of the National Space Defense Center since the second it was dreamed up by a healthy combination of intelligence and defense senior leaders. It was called the Joint ... It was called the JICSPOC [Joint Interagency Combined Space Operations Center] once upon time, and that was an acronym, but Joint Intelligence ... I can't remember exactly the acronym, but it was basically our first center dedicated to protecting and defending our U.S. space assets.

Prior to about the mid-2010s, space was really considered this benign environment that you launch a satellite, it would go up there, and the only thing you're worried about is it running into another satellite. But as we've seen over the past several decades, there's quite a bit of active systems up there that are highly maneuverable for various reasons, so now we really have to pay much, much closer attention to space as war fighting domain, and that's been a big pivot for the Air Force and now the Space Force. So our team in Colorado Springs, led by Jeff Leader, is front and center at the National Space Defense Center, working to make sure that our satellites are protected and defended.

That team also includes our Space Camp software development group. Space Camp was one of the first software factories that the DoD had put in place. And again, we were there at the beginning. One of my leaders, Lisa Thompson, who's now our new leader out here in Maui. She was one of the first contractors that was right there at the Space Camp team. And they're doing a brand of software development called DevSecOps. People might be familiar with that. But really integrating the development of tools and applications, the security and the operations, to better equip our Space Forces with tools they need from the software side in ways that make them upgradeable, modernizable, and keep track with the pace of the threat and the needs of our war fighting customers. So that team exploded over the past five years into five or six different applications that our teams are developing. We do all the training for DevSecOps for that group. And it's been a really exciting spot. We've culturally branded that as what we call team Beskar, for the Star Wars folks out there.

John Arnold

We love it. Go “Mandalorian.”

Brian Young

Exactly. There you go. You're tracking with me. But it we've built this culture of really modern Silicon Valley-type of software development, and it's very attractive to a lot of our developer folks that really enjoy being a part of that environment.

I don't want to forget our other Colorado Springs space team. Now this one came to us on the military-space side from the legacy KBR team, and they were already doing space and mil-space and KBR through our ops and maintenance and sustainment team led by Allen Kiezer. And that team has two major efforts that are really big ones. One is called the Satellite Control Network Hybrid Upgrade Program. We call it Hybrid. And that team is designing and engineering, integrating and testing out in the field, across the globe, upgrades to our satellite control network. So these are the systems that basically communicate to telemetry and commands to the military space satellites up in the various orbits, from LEO [low earth orbit] up to geo orbits. And they also run our Air Force TENCAP [Tactical Exploitation of National Capabilities] program, which TENCAP is a long-running Air Force program that integrates intelligence community capabilities to air domain pilots — so F-15 pilots, F-16 pilots, et cetera. And we run a big contract there called TENCAP Hope, which brings a lot of interesting, mostly classified capabilities to synchronize between the intelligence community and the air and space community. So that's kind of in a nutshell our Colorado team, and I know I'm going on a long time, but we got so much to cover with our mil-space group.

Last but not least is our team out here in Maui, where I came up through, and we are sent to ... this is our advanced space domain awareness technologies team, led by Lisa Thompson now. And we do everything from really low-tech readiness, innovative science and technology work, through operational command and control of a small telescope network that is also global with systems in Australia, Puerto Rico, and on the mainland U.S. This team used to be called Pacific Defense Solutions once upon a time, and they have stellar reputation in terms of really bringing new capabilities and innovations in artificial intelligence, machine learning applications to space domain awareness, as well as autonomous command and control of telescopes. Again, a worldwide network of telescopes, in a speed and 

relevancy that was unique to what we were doing out here in Maui, and is now being proliferated potentially across the broader military-space ground-based optical systems that keep track of what's going on up on orbit. So it's just an amazing team. Everything again from science and technologies, PhD astrophysicists to folks who deployed at Thule, Greenland or Diego Garcia in the middle of the Indian Ocean, that can build up and tear down communications systems and everything in between. It's really an honor and a privilege to work with and lead this team definitely.

John Arnold

Well, you can hear the passion behind it. And it is, I mean, it's so far reaching and very broad, the work that all these teams are doing. I wonder if we could talk a little bit … you've mentioned a few of them already — missile defense, GPS, telescope systems, satellites — talk a little a bit more about why these key assets or interests are important and how we are helping protect them.

Brian Young

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's pretty easy to get your brain around that these satellites support the military. But I mean, GPS is a perfect example of a system that was started by the military, but now has proliferated into every component of our daily life, from ATM transactions to you're navigating on your iPhone or you're in your car. And so these systems are national assets. And so as I mentioned, we would launch them up for decades and they'd be totally fine up there. The only thing you'd be worried about is some sort of error that might happen or an anomaly that you had to troubleshoot. But it was never caused really by some other force of some kind, other than natural forces or just straight up engineering things.

And so, again, that's just not true anymore. Everything from ground-based anti-satellite weapons, which have proliferated amongst our peer adversaries, to agile on-orbit capabilities that are able to move around inside the various orbital regimes, there is a lot more action. And again, I'm not going to say it's all threatening action. But a lot of what we do in space domain awareness is really centered on determining if things are happening on purpose or on accident, but always with an eye on protecting these space assets.

And I haven't even mentioned weather or other geospatial things that our satellite systems do. But those all have been part of a daily life of the average U.S. citizen. And while they might be launched from the military perspective, they are part of our daily life. So it's become incredibly important. And we've gotten a lot of senior leadership engagement in the U.S. government and the Defense Department and intelligence community in particular on making sure we are protecting and defending these assets.

So my vision for military-space in KBR is to really be focused on that problem set, which is “What can we do as a company to really make sure we are helping the United States move forward in terms of protecting these assets, continuing to operate them and come up with new ones that we can launch that can both help the military and U.S. way of life.”

John Arnold

You mentioned peer adversaries a couple of times now. And I think Russia has been much in the news of late, as well as China for different reasons. But General Mark Milley, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, recently told the U.S. Congress that the potential for significant international conflict between great powers — and we're sort of seeing this play out in real time — is increasing. and has indicated that Russia and China are the biggest challenges the U.S. and its allies face around all domains of war.

We've already alluded to it in this conversation a little bit, but warfighting has never been more complex, especially with the rise of cyber and machine learning and AI and autonomous systems and so on. So if you don't mind, I wonder if you could tell us about some of — and you said it's not all threats, sometimes it's just cluing in and seeing what's happening. But what are some of the threats that we're potentially up against? And starting with Russia or China, or moving around for both, it's completely up to you.

Brian Young

Well, it's fairly synonymous, the Russia and China threat. It just depends on what context you're discussing. But both countries have demonstrated capability to launch missiles from the ground that can destroy satellites on orbit. Both have executed those against their own assets. So not in an adversarial way, but just in a proof-of-concept way. But the ramifications of that are intense.

I mean, the Chinese one in particular created millions of pieces of debris that are now clogging up really important space up in geo or what have you. And the U.S. has done things similar. But in general, we do them in what we consider a much more sustainable way, launching something against an object that's in a lower earth orbit where the debris ends up falling back to earth or burning up in the atmosphere. So the ground-based threat is particularly scary because the timelines — from the time you would launch an anti-satellite missile to low earth orbit — is not very much time for you to do anything about it if you're a satellite operator.

Geo, you have a little bit more time, but the thing about objects in geosynchronous orbit is they're generally much, much bigger. They're providing a much more mission-critical capability because it's so expensive to build and get the system up there. So those systems are potentially more vulnerable, but they're also more important to our military mission. So, the ground-based threat is real and it's today and it's been demonstrated. And it's a very tough problem to solve militarily speaking.

The on-orbit problem is the one that's getting a lot of attention right now. So there's a lot of countries that are sending more satellites up. There's a lot of commercial and civil satellites being launched, which is all great in the broad scheme of humanity. But when it comes to that mission, like I'm talking about, about protecting our key assets, we really have to know if an object is moving close to another object, what's the intent there? And a lot of times we're not ... so if you're Russia or China, you're not going to be just telling the U.S., “Hey, I'm going to move over here next to your military satcom satellite, don't worry about it, everything's cool.” No, we don't get that kind of communication with Russia or China. Right? So we have to do a lot of assuming and a lot of forecasting, a lot of predicting, a lot of analyzing those kind of situations to know when something turns from interesting to an indication or warning to a threat.

And so, geosynchronous orbit is very, very far away from the earth, over 20,000 miles from the earth or kilometers. Some scientist is going to ding me on that. But it's a long way away. So, we care at those distances whether something's a hundred miles away from a satellite or a thousand miles away from another satellite, because with these maneuvering types of on-orbit assets, which are smaller and harder to detect and harder to figure out what's going on in terms of intent, our space domain awareness has to ratchet up a whole ‘nother level to protect these assets. So that's why feel like this is such a key area for KBR, because we've got such inherent skill sets in these specific scenarios that it puts us in a great spot to be able to help the government solve those problems.

But that threat is also real. The Chinese recently made the news for grabbing a satellite, one of their own again, and basically boosting out of the geosynchronous orbit to what we call a graveyard belt. And above geo, that they can just toss stuff where it's not going to really be a threat to any active systems in the geosynchronous orbit.

John Arnold

Interesting.

Brian Young

So, that's a game changer. I mean, imagine if they could do that, they could do other things. And if we don't know, we have to make some assumptions about what intent is there. And so things become a lot more scary when you think about it from that perspective.

John Arnold

Absolutely. I know you probably can't get into some of the specifics. You mentioned DevSecOps — wondering if you could tell us more about some of the other major technological trends or innovations that you're seeing that are changing the way that we're able to respond to those kinds of potential threats.

Brian Young

Yeah. I mean, obviously DevSecOps is really at the top of that technology scale there for where we've been focused. A lot of the ... so legacy Centauri and even into KBR, we're not building satellites and we're not necessarily building big ground radar systems or telescopes. But we're doing a little bit of all of that stuff writ large, across the enterprise, like I've been describing.

And so one common thread from all that is software. And so I've been on both sides of the software issue, on the military, as an engineer, and an acquisition officer. I've suffered from watching software not be able to keep pace with the needs, at least in terms of delivery of new capabilities, whether they be on airframes or in ground systems or whatnot. The pace of upgrading software has always been really slow in the Defense Department. And so it's only been in the last few years that the Defense Department in particular has embraced this idea that, "Hey, you can get an app update on your phone for Facebook 10 times a week if they so desire and push those upgrades and they work.” And you see it on your own phone that those upgrades work. Now, are there still bugs and things like that? Sure. But the pace and delivery of those updates is light years ahead of what we could get in the military side.

And so again, we've been sort of on the cutting edge of that in these software factories, both in terms of embracing the cloud native components of modern software design, where you basically are saying, "Look, I'm not going to focus on this certain subset of things I normally would as a software developer. I'm going to really zero in on the application development, and count on other systems like Platform One," which is one of the things we work on which is really centered on making sure that when you build a software tool, it runs through the processes necessary to make sure that the code is secure, that it's able to be pushed out onto the various classified networks that the government has. So it's got all the cyber capabilities locked down, And that allows you to pick up the pace in terms of talking to your customer, hearing what they want, programming that from a software development standpoint, and then pushing those capabilities back to them at record paces.

And so we've got some really great examples of that, I mentioned on SIDC [Space Innovation and Development Center] and tools that we've developed at Space Camp like Decon, which is a laser deconfliction tool, Perimeter Nine, which was a COVID tracking tool. That's got an interesting backstory. It was started by some Space Force officers that were doing software development in their spare time.

John Arnold

Wow.

Brian Young

And they got onto something, and it was too big for them to handle because they have day jobs, being military space warfighters. And so they kicked it to the Space Camp team, and we took it and ran with it. And it was used throughout COVID to help the Space Force track their employees and what their COVID status was.

And we've got half a dozen examples of their Battle Drill, Iris. It's been a really effective mechanism for delivering war fighting capabilities at a tempo and pace that has never been seen before. And it's really being embraced by the space force. General Raymond, the CSO for the U.S. Space Force has said, "Look, I want my Space Force Guardians to be digital warfighters." I don't know if he used the warfighter term, but digitally integrated. Which if you future forecast that would mean you got these military people who also are very fluent in software, and software applications, and digital environments, and things like that, because they grew up that way before they got in the military. And so we are helping foster that vision through our Space Camp teams and through the way we develop our software.

John Arnold

That's outstanding. Before I let you go … I'm so appreciative of your time and I know you've got your whole day ahead of you. But before I let you go, I was wondering if there's anything else you'd like to add, or you think our listeners would be interested in knowing about military-space, or space domain awareness work that KBR is doing?

Brian Young

Well yeah. Number one, we're hiring.

John Arnold

Absolutely!

Brian Young

This is a growing area. We have a burning need from our customers to provide software developers, engineers, scientists, to tackle some of these problems that I've talked about, in the space domain awareness side in particular. But I think that we are just on the cusp of some really big movement in the military-space side on KBR towards taking that expertise I've described and applying it in some other key areas that the Space Force really needs. And so if folks are interested in being a part of that fast-moving, very interesting community, then make sure they're talking to me, or one of those that I mentioned.

And probably second is, this space domain awareness thing is only going to get worse. And when I say worse, I just mean more ... maybe I shouldn't say worse. More challenging. As the SpaceXes of the world and Planet Technologies, and Maxar, you're starting to see just in the daily news — commercial imagery, and hearing about how Starlink is already, in Ukraine, helping for communications. That's just going to continue to flood space, which means that we have to have the commensurate ability to keep track of all those space objects.

So that's why we're doing things like modernizing and upgrading optical systems and radar systems, as well as doing the ... I already mentioned a little bit, but machine learning algorithms that help us keep track of all of that data, and making sure that we're paying attention to as much as we have. So it's just, it's really exciting work, and it really makes an impact. And so if folks have a desire to really see the fruits of their labor in terms of helping U.S. society and U.S. culture and our military, KBR mil-space is a great place to be there.

John Arnold

Great plug. Yeah. It'd be a great opportunity for anyone to do some exciting and extraordinarily important work.

Brian Young

And we have jobs available in Hawaii too. So if you want to do all that stuff and live in Hawaii, make sure you check out the careers page. We have openings here as well.

John Arnold

Absolutely. Yeah. Tell everyone to walk not run [sic] to their computer and look up position openings at KBR.com. Well, Brian — again, thank you so much for the work that you and the Military Space Operations team are doing, and we're so grateful for your time and hope talk to you again soon.

Brian Young

Thank you. It was a pleasure being able to share with you. I really appreciate the opportunity.

TRANSITION

Lubna Salim

Wow John. What a fabulous episode to highlight the leading-edge capabilities of KBR's Government Solutions business, and a good low down for our listeners who would be interested to know about the mill space, or what KBR is doing there. So lovely, lovely, great information.

John Arnold

Yeah. And I loved that Brian didn't waste any time after the interview. "Come work for us." So if you are interested in military-space, in space domain awareness, please go to KBR.com, check out the Career page. If you see a position that interests you, we'd love to have you on our team of teams. As always, we hope that the podcast can be a recruitment tool, just like anything else. We got a big push going on right now, looking for the best and best.

So yeah. I loved that. Obviously he has a lot of passion, and the work that he and his team are doing is so important for international security, and very topical and timely right now with what's going on around the world.

Lubna Salim

Absolutely.

John Arnold

So yeah, it was a fascinating discussion. Very happy to talk to Brian, and very jealous of him for living in Hawaii.

Lubna Salim

I know, I know. Which also ties in, again, to the theme of our podcast that you from Atlanta interviewed him in Hawaii. And here we are doing this recording from Delhi. So yeah.

John Arnold

It's the miracle of technology, and also speaks to the power of the KBR team of teams.

Lubna Salim

Absolutely, John. So until next time, everybody stay safe. Stay away from COVID, but remember we got to live with it.

John Arnold

That's right. Everyone take care.

Lubna Salim

Bye.